Facebook Post Prompts Boycott of Town and Country Business
A mother says she and her son were asked to leave F.O.B. St. Louis and she felt like it was discrimination. The store owner said it was sparked by a safety concern, but now there's a Facebook page creating a lot of buzz.
A Facebook page alleging an incident at F.O.B. St. Louis in Town and Country's Lamp and Lantern Village has sparked a firestorm of comments on Facebook and even here on the Town and Country-Manchester Patch site.
According to the Facebook page and an email that is circulating, Town and Country resident Shelly Arnold Reynolds said she and her son, Carter, were asked to leave the F.O.B. store by owner Kay Wallace and Reynolds claims discrimination. (At the end of this article is the post Reynolds made on her personal Facebook page and that she sent out in an email to family and friends after the alleged incident.)
A Facebook page titled Boycott F.O.B. Saint Louis - Details Women's Boutique was created asking people to boycott F.O.B. citing the alleged incident and the page is generating a lot of buzz. The page is full of comments, as is the comment column of this website. Many of the comments relay feelings of disbelief and disgust, but there has yet to be confirmation of the incident from Wallace.
"I sent out that Facebook post Friday afternoon and some emails to different mom's groups. From there, someone created the Facebook page, Boycott F.O.B., then it just blew up. Everybody started reposting and sending the email. I've seen the Boycott F.O.B. page, but I don't know who created the page. I just told my story to family and friends," Reynolds tells Patch Sunday.
In Reynold's account of the incident, she said she and her son were initially asked to leave by Wallace for fear her 4-year-old son with cerebral palsy would damage merchandise.
"I think that she was worried about her merchandise first and foremost. She does have a sign in the door that says 'No strollers.' She was very worried about her merchandise and being liable for any problems," Reynolds told Patch. However, Reynolds said she felt she and her son were being discriminated against because of his disability.
"I asked her directly, 'Are you discriminating against my son?'" Reynolds said after the alleged incident she describes in detail in the email below. "Of course I'm angry and said 'I can't believe you're doing this.' She said I was just an angry person who should shop elsewhere, so we left."
Wallace tells Patch, that Reynolds and her son did leave the store, but she insistes it was not a discrimination incident.
"This is a small store and I went and greeted her. I thought he was in a stroller at first and then when he walked away, I saw it was a walker. The issue is that he was unsupervised. I said to her, like we say to all people with children, 'We ask moms to hold their little ones' hands, because of the breakables," Wallace told Patch. "She said he'd be fine, but then he got tied up in a rug while she was looking at candles and I said, 'Ma'am, you need to come over here.' He was under a big table and I could just see this plate getting him on the head and then I'm responsible. It's not a store for children. It's a home goods store, so I have to be concerned with children being harmed."
Wallace said that's when Reynolds became upset and accused her of discriminating against her son.
"I told her I that I was not discriminating against her and her child. I told her that I didn't realize he was handicapped. I am just concerned with all children who come in here," Wallace tells Patch. "She just immediately said I was discriminating. I said, 'I am so sorry' and she said I was being condescending. She said I am insincere and I was worried about things being broken. I am worried about someone getting hurt and we are worried about all kids. I've been in business for 10 years. Many of our customers come in with their moms' in their wheelchairs and it's never been a problem. I kept saying that I am so sorry and she kept saying no you're not. It took all of 10 minutes."
But Reynolds insists her son did not trip on a rug and only "happened onto an area rug" after they were asked to leave the store. Reynolds also tells Patch that the only time her son was away from her in the store was when Wallace was speaking to her about leaving. Reynolds said she was never asked to hold her son's hand, nor was he under a table. Her account of the incident is sparking angry comments across the internet. Readers have also sent emails to the Town and Country - Manchester Patch Facebook page expressing concern over the incident and have posted comments in the page.
"Then I found out all this was going on and people are writing all thse awful things," Wallace said. Although, she said she has not seen the comments online.
Reynolds tells Patch that she has read the comments on the Boycott F.O.B. page and while she is grateful for the support, she is concerned with the animosity toward Wallace in the comments and the vicious name calling on the Facebook page. Reynolds said she does not want to create anger, but she wants to raise awareness for those with disabilities.
"I have always made sure he gets every opportunity that his peers get and we are not settling for anything less. Then something like this happens and it makes you question, 'Is this a fairy tale I'm living here? Once we step out of our box are we not accepted here?'" Reynolds asked.
She tells Patch the outpouring of support from people she's never met has proven that is not the case.
"It's heartwarming, overwhelming," Reynolds said. "You realize the world is inherently good. People are good. It's amazing, it's amazing. Strangers going the extra mile and reposting."
Now Reynolds just wants anyone who reads the Facebook page, her email or other reports to understand the importance of treating anyone with a disability with respect and just like they would treat anyone else.
"I do not want this to happen to another child or another person. I took this as an opportunity to say we are not going to put up with this behavior and you can't get away with this. I think it's easy sometimes for people to ignore this behavior. People think everyone is doing what they are supposed to be doing," Reynolds tells Patch. "It was mean. I think people get away this these attitudes and like this every day. It's wrong. Take away his (Carter's) disability and no one should be treated like that. No one should be asked to leave a store."
As far as the concern Reynolds said Wallace expressed about her merchandise, Reynolds said it may be time to make changes in the store.
"She told me several times her aisles were not wide enough. Then her aisles need to be wider. It's the law. It's a federal law. You have to be handicapped accessible," Reynolds said.
Wallace said she assumes her store is handicap accessible, "I think it is. It's in a shopping complex." However, she admits it's tight quarters in the shop.
"We, the employees have gotten tied up in our skirted tables, so it's easy to do. We've had accidents while vacuuming. It's a small store with not a lot of room and lots of breakabel items, inlcluding large mirrors that can hurt someone."
She insists the entire incident was sparked due to a safety concern and points our that she has been involved with the Special Education Foundation for years.
"I've been lucky to stay in business. Anybody has a choice to go to any store. The fact that they choose mine, I thank them. I'm sure not going to be descrimininating. It just never crossed my mind," Wallace said. "I was so dumbfounded when she left. She was so upset. I don't understand how someone got that upset, but until you walk in someone elses shoes, you just don't know.
READ REYNOLD'S ORIGINAL EMAIL:
"I guess I always knew this day would come but I was holding out hope that people were inherently good and compassionate. Today my 4 year old son and I were asked to leave a store because he walks with a walker. He has cerebral palsy and needs the walker to be independent.
Kay Wallace, owner of F O B Designs in Lamp and Lantern Village, does not believe that he should be allowed to shop in her store. Within a minute of our arrival she approached us and told me that her aisles were narrow and he could possibly run into something. I told her that he would be fine and careful. She gave me an incensed look as if to say, "clearly you don't understand what I am trying to say." After a few more comments about why he should not be there, she looked me directly in the eyes and said that he would be better served elsewhere.
My heart sank. My temper rose! I looked at Carter's happy little face and asked if she was discriminating against him because he was disabled. She said he would be better served elsewhere and that she was worried about his safety...her insurance would not cover the costs of any accidents! i told her that as his mom, I was certain that he was perfectly safe. She again told me in a very condescending way that she believed her store was not suitable for him and when I again asked if she was discriminating against him she said that I was just angry and could not be made happy and maybe I should shop elsewhere, too!!
I could not believe that in this day and age of acceptance, inclusion and education that she could be so insensitive and prejudice. People with disabilities have the right to participate fully and equally in all aspects of society, including shopping for furniture! It is essential that we change these barbaric attitudes and perceptions about people living with disabilities. Does she know how much courage, heart and determination it takes for Carter to walk into her store with his head held high and a smile on his face? Does she know how much effort it took him JUST to walk down the street and over the threshold into her store?
On several occasions during our conversation she stated that I was just angry. Of course I was angry...she just told me that my 4 year old son was not welcome in her store! I am also angry that she insinuated that I was angry because my son has a disability. Carter is the most amazing kid I have ever known and I am lucky to be his mom.
Kay Wallace of F O B Design of St. Louis should be ashamed of herself. If you agree that Kay Wallace demonstrated behavior that was unethical and unacceptable please repost and do not shop at her store or the stores of other people sharing her attitude toward people with disabilities!! Thanks for all of your support..." Shelly Arnold Reynolds
shelly reynolds
2:14 pm on Sunday, February 12, 2012
I would like to add that at NO time was my son unsupervised, at no time did Kay Wallace say mam you need to come here. She never said that she was not discriminating against us or that she did not know that he was disabled. Carter was never more than 10 feet away from me and we were in the store no longer than 5 minutes. At no point was he under a table or in any danger. Kay Wallace sid many times that she was sorry only after she asked us to leave. I am very disappointed and saddened that these false citcumstances have been introduced into the incident.
dw
3:13 pm on Sunday, February 12, 2012
Shelly,
I don't think anyone thinks you are at fault here. This woman is apparently heartless.
She should not be a business owner!
p.s.-from what I understand our kids are graduates of the same NICU!
Karen Gaines
11:12 pm on Monday, February 13, 2012
YOU have absolutely NO common sense! I bet your home is child proof where this store is not! The store is under no obligation to widen the aisles or anything else for you! Since when is a four year old child a 'shopper'? As a business owner I would have been on pins and needles worrying about breakage or injury... Obviously you have a MAJOR chip on your shoulder and no respect for this business owners merchandise or position.... I would have asked you to leave out too! You sound like the kind of entitled individual that buys something,... uses it for six months and then returns it claiming it didn't hold up well! I hope the store owner sues you for defamation and malice! Unless you want to carry you child and not let him run loose.. you have NO right to complain!!! Arrogant and stupid~!
When you grow 10 foot arms... then maybe you'll be able to say you have total control of your child... until then... no cigar!!
Were you prepared to pay for breakage or not sue if your son had been injured because it was his fault!!! Why should the store owner have to folllow your kid around to protect her interests from your kid??? Use your brain and think of someone besides yourselves... wouldn't surprise me if you weren't sue happy....... Hey everyone... go check Mo Case net and find out!!! See what you are all about or not! And to all those who crucify the shop owner .. shame on you all! You'd be singing a different tune if it was your store!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Pamela Hines
11:31 pm on Monday, February 13, 2012
Mom UP...don't take your toddler into places that aren't appropriate for children..all parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, caretakers, etc. have the common sense to NOT take their children into places that aren't
"kid friendly"..its just a part of being a MOM..you can't expect the world not to offer precious items because of you or any other 4 year old..Why take a TODDLER in? ..You need to take a look at the real world out side of the situation that is difficult for you ..it's difficult for all with children of this age ..use some common sense about what is appropriate and stop thinking it's about a 'disability"..most things in life are age appropriate..it's not just about YOU or YOUR child.
And YOU will have to make future decisions about trips, movies, friends, cars, etc...it will get worse and it's not about the disability..it's about life and what is age appropriate for
your child as he is raised in this world. I wish you all the best.
Matthew Baker
12:05 am on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Let's be honest here, Shelly. Nobody wants to see you walk in with your kid, disabled or not, because they don't want their product damaged and they don't want your kids running around the store. People who work in retail see damaged product and out of control kids everyday, and they are tired of it. You said there was a sign saying "no strollers". Why do you think that is Shelly? I can tell you why and I've never stepped foot in the store. It's because on too many occasions the owner has had perectly healthy adults come in the store and manage to break things, things that they probably never offered to pay for, and since she is the actual owner, every broken item is money out of her pocket. You said in your video that you did for the news that you were never asked to leave, but it was "implied", yet in your posts you say you were asked to leave. Which is it? Were you asked to leave or not? The reality today is that parents have become lazy, as you did. A 4-year old using a walker being 10 feet away from you is 10 feet too many. The owner knew it and has seen it before. People don't want to see anyone come into their store with young kids, disabled or not, because they already know what's going to happen-poor behavior, broken merchandise, and parents that really don't give a damn. You can be certain that you have already been in stores where the employees were cringing because they were just waiting for something to be broken.
Karen Gaines
4:55 pm on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Why don't you tell the public that your son was caught under a table in the fringe of a table cloth and about to pull it and everything on it on to himself!
You are a vicious and punitive individual who is deliberately trying to monetarily damage FOB into closing their doors.. Simply because you don't have sense enough to keep a 4 year old out of a fine gift store... PUHLEESE! YOU should be ashamed of your self.... IF what you say is true... then you're actions are far worse... You are deliberately maligning FOB and YOU should be held responsible!!! SHAME ON YOU!
TWO WRONGS HAVE NEVER MADE A RIGHT....
Cindy Green
8:09 pm on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
I am the aunt of a beautiful special needs niece. I am fairly new to the area. I am appalled that this could happen today. I'm so sorry for that mother and her beautiful little boy. But most of all, I am sorry that this store owner cannot see the beauty beyond her merchandise. How sad for her.
kathi payne
3:26 pm on Sunday, February 12, 2012
If this shop owner "really" felt that he would be unsafe in her store, then she should have assisted the shopper and her son while they stroll thru the store, making sure the isles were cleared/safe for him to pass, as they should have been anyway with ADA rules.
Jo
3:32 pm on Sunday, February 12, 2012
Excellent point, Kathi!
Jo
3:27 pm on Sunday, February 12, 2012
I stopped believing Ms. Wallace as soon as I read the bit about mistaking the walker for a stroller.
Carter was under a table - really? Is he physically able to get under a table with his walker?
Kay Wallace messed up big time, and lying about what she did is only going to make people respect her even less.
Matthew Baker
12:07 am on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Shelly Reynolds stated in the video she made for the news that she was never asked to leave. That it was "implied". Yet in the post above she says she was asked to leave. Who's lying? Was she asked to leave or not?
Marissa Bamberger Niemeyer
3:41 pm on Sunday, February 12, 2012
Wow, that Kay lady is a piece of work. From her "story", At minimum she dicriminates against children. I have a 3 and a 1 year old & have never been asked to leave any store, boutique & they have gotten super roudy. My daughter broke a display arm at cat's meow in DES Peres and I was so upset & apologizing, offering to pay for it, & they could care less.
Kay Wallace, your story is sad.
Karen Gaines
11:25 pm on Monday, February 13, 2012
You should have paid for the broken object... the store personel were being nice to you because they just wanted you out of there as fast as possible and if you think any different .. then you are a moron!
Matthew Baker
11:48 pm on Monday, February 13, 2012
Your kids are rowdy because you are the typical lazy parent that people who work in retail see everyday. You've never been asked to leave a store because the employees do not want to get in trouble from the owner or corporate office when you complain, which you undoubtedly will. People that work in retail stores cringe when parents bring young children in, and you are the perfect example of why that is.
Marissa
4:38 pm on Wednesday, February 15, 2012
Well, no actually Karen, they are very happy to have my continued business at least monthly due to their friendliness and emphasis on customer service. My 10 month old daughter was being held by one of the employees who took her out of the stroller when she started crying so that I didn't have to leave the store as I was trying to do so...since she started crying.. I said, "Please let me pay for it." telling them to add it to the items I was purchasing. The items I found since they so kindly watched her so I could shop. They told me not to bother, it was just a piece of plastic that attached some socks to the display. Because of that attitude, they have a loyal customer in me. My children are just that, children. They are well behaved most of the time, but definately can act up. I will leave a store if my children aren't acting appropriately, but in order to teach them how to act in the world...they kind of have to be IN the world. I'm not going to stroll them threw the china department in Macy's as a test run, but I really don't see how this is even the point. If she doesn't want kids there, make a sign. We won't shop there with our kids. But she can't discriminate against a child simply because he is in a walker. Bottom line. Or she can, and then I will choose to take my business elsewhere. By the way, all the name calling you are doing really isn't needed and it undermines any point you may be trying to make.
anna anderson
3:51 pm on Sunday, February 12, 2012
I think the mother of the child over reacted out of anger. I work with disabled children. A lot of people don't understand. The mother should try to educate people. Some people are afraid of others with disabilities but that doesn't mean they discriminate. I don't know the store or the owner. People are to quick to pass judgment and blame others for discrimination. When breakable things are around the store owners have every right to caution! Kids in walkers run into things. That is a fact. People should think before they react. I feel bad for this store owner because she is being made out to be the bad Guy. Both ladies could have handles this differently.
Tiffany Whitten
12:27 pm on Monday, February 13, 2012
Shame on you! You need to find a new career....
Julie Good
10:00 am on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Anna, key word is that you WORK with special kids.
Deanna
4:37 pm on Sunday, February 12, 2012
As a mom of 3 rowdy boys I completely disagree with you. Bottom line the store owner asked the mother to leave. Who knows the mom could have been coming in to spend thousands of dollars, but was rude right out of the gate. I've seen the West County attitude first hand bc I'm from there. I can go in alone and get treated as a second class citizen. I can go in with famous weathly friends and get carte blanch treatment. Everyone should be treated equally. And it's called customer service. First rule of thumb- the customer is ALWAYS right
Karen Gaines
11:16 pm on Monday, February 13, 2012
The customer is NOT always right... that's rediculous! And if you really think that ... then you have brain damage!
Matthew Baker
12:11 am on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
The customer is always right, right up until the point they are wrong, which is most of the time. You're the parent people who work in retail don't want to see coming through the door. The "customer is always right" is an antiquated philosophy in retail today because companies have grown tired of getting ripped off.
Deanna
4:38 pm on Sunday, February 12, 2012
*disagree with Anna
Jo
4:59 pm on Sunday, February 12, 2012
"I work with disabled children." Yet you don't know about people - first language? Hmm, interesting...
"The mother should try to educate people."
She clearly stated that's what she's trying to do by getting the word out about what happened to her and her son.
"Some people are afraid of others with disabilities but that doesn't mean they discriminate."
Actually, that is, by definition, discrimination.
"Kids in walkers run into things. That is a fact."
So do four - year - olds without physical disabilities, people distracted by cell phones, and even typically graceful adults. Interesting how they don't get shoved toward the exit, eh?
"Both ladies could have handles this differently."
Yes, they certainly could have. Ms. Wallace could have gone out of her way to help her potential customers instead of discriminating against a young child. The mother could have become irate and thrown a big temper tantrum right there in the parking lot. Considering the circumstances, I'd say Shelly handled the situation very well.
Tiffany Whitten
12:31 pm on Monday, February 13, 2012
Thank you!
Marissa Bamberger Niemeyer
7:32 pm on Sunday, February 12, 2012
So, I'm confused? Kay, you say your store is small? http://www.stlmag.com/St-Louis-AT-HOME/March-April-2006/Illuminating-Lamp-Lantern/ "at 5,000 sq feet, the store is luxuriously large." Um, so which is it? Even if you have downsized since 2006, to let's say, half the sq footage...that's still too small fir a 4 year old with a walker. Interesting.
ebmehb
12:28 am on Monday, February 13, 2012
Wow- Everyone needs to stop and breath there are always three sides to a story. The two Kay's, Anna's and the truth somewhere in between. Obviously this customer had a bad experiance- I don't doubt that, but this world is so full of hate and everyone needs to be more loving. I am sure Kay is losing sleep over this and going over and over how she could have handled this better- I would be and have when I owned my own store Please everyone just send out love- to all parties involved
ebmehb
12:32 am on Monday, February 13, 2012
Sorry I didn't mean anna, I meant Sheely
Tiffany Whitten
12:30 pm on Monday, February 13, 2012
As a mother of a child in a walker, we have faced many stores with tight fits. When we do go to a store like that we have to make sure he is very careful. I understand completely how this mother feels. Just the look from people is enough to know you are not welcomed. Unless you have a child with a walker, do not doubt the mother. Nothing comes from her saying this. I'm shocked that people can be so ignorant to think the mother is at fault. And shame on the person who works with disabled people. You might want to find a new career choice. I know where I will never shop, because I'm sure I'd be asked to leave also.
Sandra
12:59 pm on Monday, February 13, 2012
Haven't businesses learned that it is not 1980 anymore and word travels at lightning speed these days??? Ahhh, the power of social media. Hopefully, it will make heartless people like Kay evaluate their business practices and personal character.
Val Pfadenhauer
5:44 pm on Monday, February 13, 2012
I would never shop here and will make sure I tell everyone I know about your rude and disrespectful behavior. You should be ashamed of yourself! Good luck because I think you will see your business decline significantly as a lot of people feel the same as I do!
Laura St. John
3:45 pm on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Val...So all the innocent bystanders in this mess should be punished, too? What about employees of the store? The venders the owner buys from? The people who deliver the merchandise. All these people should be punished for the altercation between these two women? Jobs are scarce and this is a small business. Some of the people affected by a shut down or lack of business were not even in the store. Is this just collateral damage? Is a boycott really the best way to handle this situation? This is just wrong all the way around.
John Bell
6:05 pm on Monday, February 13, 2012
This is a sad deal for both sides. When i owned my shop people would bring in children, in general, and they would brake things and 99 percent of the times would never offer to pay for the damage. Thats what scared this shop owner. The owner should just put a sign on the door that all children must be supervised and the parent is responsible for all damage. Problem solved
Janet finch
7:09 pm on Monday, February 13, 2012
Wow. Im embarrassed for the lyncing this has turned into. I hope none of you ever make an error in judgement in front of any of your supposed friends. You people are out for blood and are just as bad as those that do actually discriminate against those of us with disabilities. Get a hold of yourselves before you do something you regret when you are more level headed.
Karen Gaines
10:34 pm on Monday, February 13, 2012
This is rediculous!!!!!!!!! No mother that has any respect for the merchandise in a store filled with very breakable things .... and a child in walker (disabled or not) should get their nose bent out of shape if you're letting your child be 10 feet away..
Talk about stupid... How would you like it if a child in a walker was like a bumper car with your china... The problem here is the mother is clueless.. and I bet would NEVER have offered to pay for a darned thing if her child broke something... Just another example of the self entitled attitudes of selfish people! All you people out for blood should be ashamed of yourselves!!!!!!!!!!!
Gabrielle Biondo
12:01 am on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
For those of you posting on this site - I just removed a number of comments where there is name calling and personal attacks on others posting comments. Patch appreciates and encourages reader comments, that is why both sides of this story are posted in the article - because it is a news article and people can form their own opinions. We certainly want to read your thoughts and opinions, but the postings with name calling are coming down. There are terms and conditions users of this site must abide by so we appreciate you doing so as you post your thoughts. If you have any questions - please email me at Gabrielle.Biondo@Patch.com. Thank you and thank you for all of the reader feedback.
Julie Good
9:04 am on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
I have a special needs son as well. If you are not a parent of a special needs child then you have NO idea. I do not believe that if her son was a "normal" kiddo she would have been asked to leave. As sad as it is we do get discriminated against more than you could ever know. When I was a member at the YMCA I was asked to schedule with the daycare of when I would be in the gym for a workout. No one else had to do that. I'm glad she has brought this to the publics attention. The negative comments from those of you that have posted some mean things are moms that have "normal" kids and do not have a clue.
James Griffin
9:27 am on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Reynolds must be a crazy person looking for attention. Why don't we just license 4 year olds to drive? Most people with common sense realize that as a business owner you have the right to refuse services to anyone. In one action that kid could have bumped a table of merchandise and caused $300.00 or more in damages. Would mom be willing/able to fork over that money right away or would mom be on facebook crying about she shouldn't be responsible for something her handicapped child did. It seems that mom grew up in an age of "blaming everyone else" and it wasn't my fault. I wonder what will happen when she takes him to an amusement park and he can't ride the roller coaster or some other ride because he's too short/handicapped. By the way, all young kids have undeveloped motor skills and are mentally and physically handicapped to some degree so it has to because he is a child.
Karen Gaines
9:36 am on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Good for you James Griffin! YOU are another voice of reason!
Obviously and sadly there are way too many people out there that are self absorbed irresponsible and think that they should be able to let their kids do anything they please at someone elses expense! I hope people will shop at FOB just to spite that
unreasonable mother!! I know I will!!!
Julie Good
9:53 am on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
To Karen, it doesn't sound like she was letting her four year old run around crazy in the store!! Did it sound that way to you?
Julie Good
9:42 am on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
To James AND everyone else making similar comments. Why is everyone assuming she wouldn't have paid for broken merchandise? Why do you assume she is the type of person that was raised to BLAME EVERYONE ELSE? I have taken my special needs son to six flags several times! If he can't ride because of his height then that's ok. If he was not allowed to ride because he has cerebral palsy then you bet I would be mad! That has nothing to do with her experience at that store.
Karen Gaines
9:53 am on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Why is everyone assuming.... because she is a mean punitive individual with NO regard for the business owner. She says her son was never more than 10 feet away from her... And she THINKS she has control over her child from that distance?
As far as rides at Six Flags... Would you hold them resposible for your childs injuries if he were hurt... CP children are a risk to the park... I know they want to have fun to as all children do... but it has to be fair to the park and not put them at risk because of
someone's disability... THAT IS FAIR!
Julie Good
3:30 pm on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Karen, Would I hold six flags responsible if my son had a seizure on one of their rides? NO. Would I hold six flags responsible for my sons injury and or death due to neglect of maintenance? YES. Special needs, or as you put it, CP children are a risk to the park. They are no more a risk than anyone else there. I am so sorry you feel this way, but to be honest with you if I didn't know first hand what a special needs kiddo is like on a daily basis, as a mom then I might have your same thoughts. This is why I am so grateful for my son. He has opened my eyes to a world I would have never been aware of.
Julie Good
9:51 am on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Also, to the person that made the accusation of "Shelly probably being the type of person that sues everybody and to check her out on case net ". I did that and there is not even ONE record of her listed for ANYTHING!! Just thought you needed to know that!
Karen Gaines
10:03 am on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
For Gosh sakes.... We all know kids run like crazy when they are in those walkers and that's the truth! They bump into everything they come in contact with..
IF you were the store owner and saw a kid with a walker come in.... YOU too would be horrified at the little bull dozer and what damage he could do in just a few seconds time... The mother doesn't have 10 foot arms now does she... HOW could she possibly control her child from that distance?
This world has a bunch of selfish self absorbed individuals who think that everyone
else should cater to them and it's just wrong!
Take kids where it's kid friendly and don't expect other people to widen their aisles etc... Take grandma or a friend to watch them or leave them home if it's not kid friendly place... IT'S CALLED COMMON SENSE AND BEING RESPECTFUL TO OTHERS AND THEIR PROPERTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Becky H
5:20 pm on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
I am a Physical Therapist. Part of my job is to teach children how to use walkers. Children are not "in" walkers, they use them. Some children have excellent control, some have more severe gait deviations due to hypertonicity or more severe cases of spastic diplegia. Every child is different, just as every adult who ambulates is different. Walkers are not bull dozers, they are assistive devices meant to help a person be as independent as possible. To term them as something other than they are puts an unfair label onto the device and to the person using them. Unless there is a specific law that prohibits a child to be in a certain business, then it is the parents prerogative to monitor the child and rectify any damages that are done. Our society has long moved past the days when we locked up our citizens who were less than perfect. This did occur quite frequently in the 1950's and before. The laws have changed whether some people like it or not. And when it comes to respect--I say respect PEOPLE first.
Elizabeth Beinke
10:15 am on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
As a Mom of 3 who does not have or want a Nanny or others watching my kids, I take them everywhere with me. I have never allowed this to prevent me from taking my kids ANYWHERE and neither should anyone else with children, this is what we do and how we run errands and how we run our lives. We do not and cannot spend all day, everyday at Chuck E Cheese. There is not a "no children" policy at this store (and if she doesn't want children in the store then there should be a sign outside the store stating this). The store also claims to be handicapped accessible on the website. How can a store that is handicapped accessible not have the space for a child in a walker to navigate through the store? What about people in wheelchairs? If she's so concerned about her breakables then she needs to set some rules for her own store on her website and on a sign outside the store and not choose who comes in and who doesn't based on her own personal judgments, that is discrimination and this mom has every right to be outraged!
Karen Gaines
10:34 am on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Are your children well behaved or do they run around like little banshees?
You sound like you have no respect for others either!
If your children are well behaved and respectful of others property then good for you.
.
That child was under a table caught up in the fringe and was about to pull things down
on his head! The mother wasn't watching her child and the store owner would have been liable for his injury and you people who rush to judgement and defend the indefensible are pathetic! HOW is that fair to the store owner??
Janet finch
11:03 am on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Karen: relax. You can't harass people into not having opinions that differ from yours.
Sam K
11:11 am on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Karen,
Most mothers do not have the luxury of leaving their children at home while they go about their daily business of running a household. I cannot even imagine the demands that exist for a parent with a child with a disability. You sound like the type of woman who has a nanny to do everything and then run around complaining that working parents are the entitled ones. Must be fun to have the freedom and privlidge of shopping all on your own.
Since you agree that she had the right to ask the mother to leave and think it is a good business decision, why then are you complaining that this mother is informing the public of such a good business decision. One would think you and Kay would be grateful that her message that children are not welcome gets such far reaching free publicity. Think of all the damaged goods that will now be saved and none of her employees will ever have to waste time explaining their policy to the unwashed masses. Sounds like a win-win to me. We are now informed consumers.
Karen Gaines
12:00 pm on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
No Sam... I'm a business owner..
I have a great friend who had a child with CP.. and she was always respectful of stores etc... Yes it's hard there is no dispute... I suggest you speak to the store owner.. I did.. I was just curious enough to learn the facts..
The child was under a table - tangled in some fringe about to pull things on to his head...
I'm NOT a woman with a nanny or rich for that matter... BUT I was taught respect for other peoples property and learned to anticipate potential problems... Luckily I have common sense which is something SOARLY lacking in todays world!
Gabrielle Biondo
11:22 am on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
For those of you posting on this site - comments where there is name calling and/or personal attacks will be removed. Patch appreciates and encourages reader comments, that is why both sides of this story are posted in the article - because it is a news article and people can form their own opinions. We certainly want to read your thoughts and opinions, but the postings with name calling are coming down. There are terms and conditions users of this site must abide by so we appreciate you doing so as you post your thoughts. If you have any questions - please email me at Gabrielle.Biondo@Patch.com. Thank you and thank you for all of the reader feedback.
Sam K
2:12 pm on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
God love ya karen, I can tell you have alot of respect for other people by your comments.
"We all know kids run like crazy when they are in those walkers and that's the truth!"
I had no idea that children with CP run like crazy in those walkers, thanks for telling us all the truth.
"IF you were the store owner and saw a kid with a walker come in.... YOU too would be horrified at the little bull dozer and what damage he could do"
Wow, reducing children with CP to the term little bull dozer. I can see your respect and empathy coming through. Nice broad brush that you paint with.. I'd hate to know what all of your other generalizations consist of.
Again, you should thank the mother for doing the PR work for this crummy store. Now the word is out on the common sense clientele that is welcome there..Stop your complaining.
IF you were the store owner and saw a kid with a walker come in.... YOU too would be horrified at the little bull dozer and what damage he could do
Karen Gaines
5:31 pm on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Sam,
I didn't say the child with CP was running around like a banshee. If you would pay attention that comment was a response to the woman with three kids she takes everywhere... Why don't you ask the store owner what happened... she is a delightful woman... the 'mother' on the other hand is a very vicious and punitive woman..
She's rather scary in her TV debut... so full of venom!
Not hurt but pure venom and if you can't see it then you are blind!
David
10:26 pm on Wednesday, February 15, 2012
you say boycott this "crummy" store. then say IF you were the store owner and saw a kid with a walker come in.... YOU too would be horrified at the little bull dozer and what damage he could do..... You can't decide how you feel so I'll finish it for you. Encourage people to be a good customer to her store. She is only trying to earn an honest living. I hope her store does well, So does the majority of us.
Sarah Kunstman
2:29 pm on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
The Americans with Disabilities Act is a law. This law protects children. Here is a link to some additional information. http://www.ada.gov/. Look under 2010 ADA and Small Biz Primer. The two main points I see here are "accessible route" and carpet/rugs. The path a person with a disability takes to enter and move through your business is called an “accessible route.” This route, which must be at least three feet wide, must remain accessible and not be blocked by items such as vending or ice machines, newspaper dispensers, furniture, filing cabinets, display racks, potted plants etc. For the second issue I would suggest a rug hanging display system. According to the ADA, rugs fall under the same rules as carpet. If the rugs are on the floor they shall be securely attached and have a level loop or texture. The pile height shall be 1/2 inch max. The edges should be fastened to floor surfaces and have trim 1/4 inch or less in height. This is why I would suggest a display, because I'm sure the rugs don't all match these criteria. I'm a registered interior designer with the State of Missouri.
Julie Good
3:18 pm on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Sarah, Thank you for stating the facts. Much appreciated!
Laura St. John
4:10 pm on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Sarah....
No laws have been broken...
http://www.ada.gov/pubs/adastatute08.htm#SubchapIII
"Readily Achievable" is defined and can certainly be applied to the store owner.
SUBCHAPTER III - PUBLIC ACCOMMODATIONS AND SERVICES OPERATED BY PRIVATE ENTITIES
Sec. 12181. Definitions
As used in this subchapter:
(9) Readily achievable
The term "readily achievable" means easily accomplishable and able to be carried out without much difficulty or expense. In determining whether an action is readily achievable, factors to be considered include
(A) the nature and cost of the action needed under this chapter;
(B) the overall financial resources of the facility or facilities involved in the action; the number of persons employed at such facility; the effect on expenses and resources, or the impact otherwise of such action upon the operation of the facility;
(C) the overall financial resources of the covered entity; the overall size of the business of a covered entity with respect to the number of its employees; the number, type, and location of its facilities; and
(D) the type of operation or operations of the covered entity, including the composition, structure, and functions of the workforce of such entity; the geographic separateness, administrative or fiscal relationship of the facility or facilities in question to the covered entity.
Becky H
6:12 pm on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
The hatred, venom, and name calling that has occurred on both sides is juvenile. If you feel strongly that the store owner was well within her rights, go visit her and spend some of your money on her items. If you feel that this child and mother were unfairly treated, make a donation to an appropriate charity, such as www.cprf.org/ or www.ucp.org/ or www.marchofdimes.org. Calling people Morons, stupid, hateful, vindictive, vicious, punitive, etc. is unnecessary and immature. Put your money where your mouths are! I am!
Sarah Kunstman
8:07 am on Wednesday, February 15, 2012
It is considered readily achievable for a 36" wide accessible path of travel to be made.
Laura St. John
10:39 am on Wednesday, February 15, 2012
Sarah,
Did you read the above text from the written law? The store owner is not breaking the law. You have your opinion and the store owner has hers and her accounting books. Maybe she cannot afford to make her aisles 36" or move to a larger space. The original story was not even about the ADA law. A woman is claiming discrimination, which is difficult to prove in court even when it is "blatant".... unless there is video tape of the event, it is she said versus she said ... and I agree with Becky H ... put your money where you mouth is ...
Sarah Kunstman
11:57 am on Wednesday, February 15, 2012
I am providing accurate, relevant information and advice, not my opinion. Take it or leave it. I am familiar with readily achievable.
Like you said, the original story is about discrimination, not the ADA. However, ADA laws prohibit discrimination by definition. The Civil Rights Division enforces federal statutes prohibiting discrimination on the basis of race, sex, disability, religion, etc. They enforce the Americans with Disability Act.
If you feel the information I provided was inaccurate, you can call the ADA information line at 800-514-0383 for additional clarification. If not to provide an accessible space for others, than at least for your peace of mind.
David
10:18 pm on Wednesday, February 15, 2012
I've never been to this store. This article makes me very upset as I'm a business owner also. I will not boycott this store. This weekend I think I'll bring my wife and look around the store and if I see anything I remotely like, I will buy it. I wish the owner well and hope others will do the same. Best wishes
Karen Gaines
10:50 pm on Wednesday, February 15, 2012
??? I NEVER said to boycott the store..!!!!
I'm in complete support of the owner.... WHY do you think I said that???
Karen Gaines
10:31 pm on Wednesday, February 15, 2012
Well GOOD for you David!!!.. Finally a voice of reason and common sense!
I plan on doing the same when in the area.. The store owner is quite lovely!
I won't be bringing any children or grandchildren,nieces or nephews!!.... They do NOT belong in a store with so many things that children can't wait to touch!
I hope the owner will be able to recover from her $$ damage..
AND OH BY THE WAY .. Shelly Robinson posted TWO very damaging reviews of FOB on the google review site.... She said she meant no harm and was not being punitive... she lied! For all who believed her motives were pure.. YOU were duped!
Karen Gaines
10:31 pm on Wednesday, February 15, 2012
Ps.... she posted under two different identities.... real class act she is!! NOT!
Karen Gaines
10:51 pm on Wednesday, February 15, 2012
David... You've got my post confused with someone elses....
michael
8:08 am on Thursday, February 16, 2012
The store owner should have posted a sign, clearly visible, on the outside of the store. "NO CRIPPLES OR AMPUTEES ALLOWED" that would have prevented all of this uproar..
Karen Gaines
9:47 am on Thursday, February 16, 2012
You may not be physically handicapped.. but you quite possibly are mentally deficient... Obviously you didn't bother to research into what actually happened!
The kid was caught up in the fringe of a table cloth and was about to pull all the stuff on top of him and his mother (Kelly) took offense when the store owner was
worried about an injury...
If you are mentally incapable of grasping this.... then I feel sorry for your
lack of reasoning ability...
You people who vilify the store owner are beyond belief... Just because
someone says something on social media doesn't make is GOSPEL!!
Too bad you only looked at one side of the story!!!
Becky H
7:54 pm on Thursday, February 16, 2012
Karen,
Is it necessary to call people the following terms:
Mentally deficient?
Beyond belief?
A Liar?
A Banshee?
Vicious?
Punitive?
Scary?
Full of Venom?
Blind?
Disrespectful?
Pathetic?
Bulldozer?
Self-Absorbed?
Irresponsible?
Unreasonable?
Clueless?
Self-Entitled?
Selfish?
Brain Damaged?
Moron?
Arrogant?
Stupid?
(and by the way, there is not ONE casenet claim against the mother, whose name is not Kelly...or Shelly Robinson)
I don't mind differing opinions spoken in a respectful voice, but there is hardly one adjective that you use that is not inflammatory, unkind, and ignorant..
Karen Gaines
9:55 pm on Thursday, February 16, 2012
Becky H,
Just a couple more things -
Did you bother to check the facts? Did you know that the store next door complained about Shelly letting Carter run around like crazy and someone had to follow Carter around while Shelly paid no attention what soever?
Did you know it was NOT a walker that you walk behind? It was a 'sit in' model with four wheels and they stuck out pretty far - real easy to run into things...
Did you know that Carter got caught up in a rug under a table and was about to pull things on top of him and the mother was 25 feet away? Kay had to call the mother to
help immediately and it took 4-5 minutes to untangle him?
Did you know that the mother started accusing discrimination and threatening to post on Facebook before she EVER left the store???
I didn't think so! So if you did - I hope you will be spending your money at FOB!
Also why don't you chastise those you WERE vindictive and vicious towards Kay!
How about the teacher who walked into FOB and screamed 'Kay you are despicable' twice in front of a store full of people..
You think it's FAIR for Shelly to defame this store owner?
PUHLEEZE!!
WHERE is YOUR sense of fairness??
Thank you....
Karen Gaines
9:35 pm on Thursday, February 16, 2012
Well it's too bad you take offense at my adjectives..
I don't claim to be 'politically correct' EVER!
However I am one of the most completely honest and trustworthy people you would ever have the privledge of knowing... People either love me or hate me but I make NO apologies for calling like it IS!...
So If you would bother to read the posts I responded to ... AND if you had the real facts as to what happened.. YOU too may have wanted to use these to describe the person who made the comment....
You assume alot... for instance the term 'bulldozer' was NOT made in reference to the child in question.... Go back and read the posts..
Glad to hear she has clean record... good for her...
So at least hopefully people will learn a big lesson from all this... DO NOT presume the right to 'cyber lynch' someone (people are innocent until proven guilty in this USA remember????
... Because when you do.... ALL of these adjectives apply! Thank you very much!
Becky H
10:31 pm on Thursday, February 16, 2012
My sense of fairness has been stated before here, and elsewhere. If you feel strongly one way or another, put your money where your mouth is. Patronize F.O.B. and give her your $$$ if you are in agreement with her. Go shopping! If you understand the Mother's viewpoint, make a donation to an appropriate children's charity that deals with premature infants or Cerebral Palsy. It is never okay to advocate violence, screaming, or immature behavior such as name calling and berating people who think differently than you do. Grown ups should know better. There are better ways to deal with people that we disagree with.
I know that with every "she said-she said" story there are at least two sides to that same story. The "facts" on one side may be felt as strongly as the "facts" on the other side. It could actually be that neither side is 100% wrong. It could be that Kay handled herself poorly. It could be that Carter's mother handled herself poorly. I have never advocated harrassment. I am also a business owner and I understand the power of positive and negative communication, and I understand the power of the internet. 90% of our business comes from word of mouth and the internet.
Pediatric walkers are different than the majority of adult walkers, but they are not a stroller. Some adults actually use these types of walkers as well, when they become fatigued and need a place to regain energy. I am well aware of the different types of assistive devices.
Karen Gaines
11:04 pm on Thursday, February 16, 2012
Becky,
I too am a business owner of 30 years..
The mother did not tell the truth.. her story was inconsistent even in her own posts...
She posted a nasty review of FOB and many others jumped on the band wagon to crucify the store owner... Go check the facts like I said..
There are always three sides to a story...
I have spoken with the owner at length.. HAVE YOU? I didn't think so...
Shelly Robinsons behavior and refusal to take responsibility for her bad
behavior is offensive to say the least..
Who is stupid enough to bring a four year old into a store like that... certainly not me!
It's just asking for trouble ... normal or disabled... As a matter of fact Kay did not know Carter was disabled until Shelly accused her of discrimination... All Kay knew was that Shelly was 25 feet away and Carter was as risk of being injured...
If you are going to communicate with me... then YOU do your homework!
Kay handled the situation exactly how I would have and I'm willing to bet exactly the way anyone with common sense would have!!!
Respectfully!
Respectfully...
Becky H
11:11 pm on Thursday, February 16, 2012
Good night, God bless. I am done. I am more aware than what you might know or guess. I will not lower myself to your rhetoric. Good luck with your future endeavors.
Becky H
11:17 pm on Thursday, February 16, 2012
One last thing...you still have her name wrong. How on earth do you know t hat she posted anything once or even twice when you don't know her real name?